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Link that turned into a rant...

theferrett is saying things I agree with again, this time about the proliferation of people with things wrong with them, somehow, who expect the world to change for them. The 75% of kids these days who seem to be (self-)diagnosed with ADD or Asperger's, so they don't ever have to try in school or try to fit in with society - and when they don't succeed, it's society's fault. The people with learning difficulties who expect to be given jobs that they're incapable of doing, and shout discrimination when they're not. The people with depression/ SAD/ (self-diagnosed) psychological problems/ childhood issues who think that just because they can trace the reason why they've treated you like crap, it's OK for them to keep treating you like crap; that because they have a "disease", they can't modify their behaviour, because it's not their fault.

Disclaimer: No, I'm not talking about you. I know people with all of these problems who are NOT like that at all; who just happen to have Condition X, but don't let it define their life, and (crucially) would be horrified if it defined them in the eyes of others.

Comments

( 20 comments — Comment )
davidcook
Mar. 30th, 2006 04:48 pm (UTC)
Hmmm. I self-diagnose myself as having (or having had) Asperger's, because A) that's what comes up on all of the online tests for it, and B) it makes 15 or so socially-painful years of my life ... well, no less painful, but at least they make a little more sense. So, it's an explanation, not an excuse ...
pickwick
Mar. 31st, 2006 05:02 pm (UTC)
Yeah, but you don't expect to be treated differently because of it, or anything, and you don't talk about it a lot. (AFAIK, of course.)
octopoid_horror
Mar. 30th, 2006 04:52 pm (UTC)
The amount of livejournal people and indeed computer geeks in general who are slightly crap at social situations and almost uniformly claim they all have aspergers and funnily enough never see a doctor or get one to agree irritates me a lot.
momentsmusicaux
Mar. 30th, 2006 08:20 pm (UTC)
They claim they have asperger's?
I thought they just went around saying they were libertarians...
octopoid_horror
Mar. 30th, 2006 08:31 pm (UTC)
Some do both ;-)
pickwick
Mar. 31st, 2006 05:23 pm (UTC)
Oh, god, yeah. But they've done online tests! It must be true!
chrestomanci
Mar. 30th, 2006 06:25 pm (UTC)
I read that post too, and agreed with it but didn't comment. (It's useless to comment on his posts these days unless you've got a serious counterpoint to offer, and I usually don't.) It just kind of fits in with the general self-absorbed culture we seem to be morphing into.
carrie2004
Mar. 30th, 2006 06:40 pm (UTC)
It is odd that you can have one person with ADD who claim they can't
work or 'be normal' and yet have another person diagnosed with the same
condition who has a successful job, happy relationships and overall decent
life.While I know first hand how mental illness can affect a person's
abilities, I also know that the 'individual factor' seems to play a larger
part in one'limitations, as does one's experiences in life.Far more so than
the illness itself.Well, that's just my opinion of course.
pickwick
Mar. 31st, 2006 05:22 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I agree. And a lot of the time now it seems to be expected that if you're "ill" in whatever way, you can't just try and overcome that illness, getting the support you *need* - you should get every kind of help you can.
singinghels
Mar. 30th, 2006 08:05 pm (UTC)
And don't get me stated on what some kids at school get away with because they've got social problems! There's one who has 'a problem with authority' so you're not allowed to challenge him in any way or he'll just run away from school; so he's allowed to not wear correct uniform, has his lip pierced and doesn't do any work, and you can't bollock him. And it's ok for him to tell you to 'Shut up'. All of which is ridiculous, frankly. And the amount of extra paperwork and effort that coping with all of this entails is also ridiculous.

Whilst I do think that some kids do genuinely have problems, there are just as many who just can't help themselves.
pickwick
Mar. 31st, 2006 05:04 pm (UTC)
Gnah. Sounds like a nightmare!! Sometimes I long for '50s discipline - funny how kids managed to behave OK then :)
momentsmusicaux
Mar. 30th, 2006 08:18 pm (UTC)
Not sure I agree.
You're treating anything to do with the mind and behaviour as being in the control of one's volition. We know that's not true. Some people have brain damage, some are schizophrenic, and so on.
It's hard to keep that in mind for disorders that aren't as dramatic. I lived with someone who had asperger's, and yes, sometimes I just thought 'Get a fucking clue.'

But let me play devil's advocate: are you opposed to buildings being designed with ramps?
pickwick
Mar. 31st, 2006 05:07 pm (UTC)
Buildings with ramps are good. Travelators from the front door of a wheelchair-bound person directly to every place they might want to go would be bad.

I'm not saying don't make *any* concessions to people with brain/ mind disorders, just that...people with sprained ankles don't need ramps, I guess. And I know the severity of a lot of these problems, but I also know people who live with them fine, and part of that's because they've realised that the world can't change for everyone who's a little bit off to one side of the norm.
fjm
Mar. 30th, 2006 09:24 pm (UTC)
The white middle class men who think they are being cheated if a woman or a black person or someone with a disability gets the job they wanted.

Somehow, they still outnumber the people you are castigating.
pickwick
Mar. 31st, 2006 05:08 pm (UTC)
I know, but that's like saying we shouldn't be upset about GBH when there are still a lot of murders.
(Deleted comment)
laerad
Mar. 31st, 2006 04:19 pm (UTC)
Actually, that is a quite insightful comment and one of the reasons i like you so much. The don't dare blame me for my failings generation. What a lovely image we are.

As to the downing of anti-depressants, you're in a quite large club of folk in the group i know, most of whom i'm quite close to. Don't think that is what is being talked about, that is a diagnosed illness which is being treated, pickwick was complaining about folk that say they have something but never go near a doctor to find out in case it's not them and they have to face the fact that they are responsible.
pickwick
Mar. 31st, 2006 05:17 pm (UTC)
Our generation is totally like that, and it depresses me. People want special treatment all the time. And there's an argument that says yeah, that's fair - wheelchair ramps and that sort of thing isn't exactly outrageous :) - but the thing is, I think every single person I know has *something* diagnosed wrong with them. What happens if we all go for the same job? How will they know who not to discriminate against?!?!

It's what I was talking about to you the other night - yes, diagnosed dyslexics shouldn't be forced to put things in writing, or should be given extra time in exams, but they shouldn't be able to get jobs that basically consist of paperwork *if they aren't capable of doing the damn job*.
pickwick
Mar. 31st, 2006 05:11 pm (UTC)
Yeah, from that and it's also the psychiatry and therapy generation. We've got very good at looking into ourselves to see what causes things, but a lot of people seem to think that that's enough - that if you know what causes it you don't need to try and fix it or work round it.
kaiserdad
Mar. 31st, 2006 04:27 am (UTC)
A lot of this is to do with the new PC definitions, I have taught and enabled *special needs* students for many years, by special needs I mean *learning dificulties*, and they ask for very little, these days special needs can include anything you want it to include so that a brat who can't be bothered to put in any effort can indeed expect to get preferential treatment on the grounds of *special needs* In my day they would have *kissed the gunners daughter* at about 13 years of age and discovered a sudden will to apply themselves.
pickwick
Mar. 31st, 2006 05:10 pm (UTC)
I think you're right. And parents these days have so much power - it's not like the schools can demand to see a doctor's diagnosis or anything, cos the parents just go mental.

(I don't know what the gunners daughter bit means, it sounds rude :))
( 20 comments — Comment )

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